Reaching Across The Ignorance Divide
Michele Christensen 0:07
Hi, welcome to Sex. Love. Power. I'm your host, Michele Lisenbury Christensen. I work with couples who want to create lifelong love and ever-deeper passion and my clients are ambitious in every part of their lives. Given that, a conversation we're having a lot these days is about how we can call in the people in our lives, who feel very differently than we do about the election results and how we can be loving with family members, friends, neighbors, and community members, AND be clear in our communication about racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, rape culture, and issues related to systemic barriers to health and happiness that exist for so many people in our culture.
Michele Christensen 0:50
As people ask me, “how do I engage with these people whose views just absolutely baffle me” I find that my responses come directly from what I've learned from the people around me for whom I'm the baffling one- at least I have been at times, and hopefully, to a lesser degree, with more experience as I gain it.
Michele Christensen 1:12
I think of specific friends who are black, Indigenous, Latinx, Filipinx, and South Asian. I think of other friends who are transgender, gay, queer, parents of LGBTQIA, young people, respectively. I think of friends who are Muslim and Jewish. Each of these people has, through how they live their lives, how they show up in community, how they respond to my friendship, and my activism, and why my well-intended white-lady ignorance, taught me how to engage with people whose views and behavior I might find objectionable, who I'd like to enlighten without being obnoxious myself.-because when did that ever enlightened anyone else?
Michele Christensen 1:55
That's what we're talking about today. The Eight Things that women of color and other marginalized friends have taught me about graciously calling people in when I'm tempted to call them out:
Michele Christensen 2:07
First and foremost- choose how you're going to show up based on who you want to be- as if your interactions were your art, your magnum opus, your swan song. THIS conversation is your contribution to the world, and it's your spiritual practice.
Michele Christensen 2:22
If we can embrace that, how we interact with the people who were frustrated by, who we disagree with, who we just wish we could grab and shake. Those interactions are our opportunity, there's like sacred ground, there our opportunity to be at our best- to demonstrate our greatest equanimity, our greatest groundedness. There our chance to practice being centered. Their like those big weights in the gym, that we can pick up time and again, and get stronger every time we do. If we make these interactions, our practice, not a time to win, not a time to bring somebody around, but a time to become something greater than we were before. That's the first place to start.
Michele Christensen 3:10
Second, one of the things that I see women do so beautifully, and people who aren't women also. But in particular, I'm thinking of women of color, who are activists and can't choose to be, you know, it's a matter of survival for many women who are marginalized, and you know, being marginalized is part and parcel of being a woman in a patriarchy. But as a white cisgender, straight woman married to a white man, I don't get marginalized a whole lot beyond on the basis of gender. So women of color, who are single parents, so many of my friends are activists, because that activism is a fight for their lives and for their children's lives. So what they've taught me is that they take care of themselves, they pull back when they need to, they don't let themselves get run too ragged by fights they don't have to fight.
Michele Christensen 4:09
This inspires me in two ways. One, anytime it feels hard for me to have conversations with people about views that are problematic because of the ways that they've reinforce oppression for other people, I remember that those conversations are optional for me, at some level.
Michele Christensen 4:29
I think of beautiful women who demonstrate so much grace, so much resilience.. And that grace and resilience is born of years of practicing, needing to hold their tongues, to hold their energy back, to endeavor to speak truth to people who have the power to silence them or even hurt them if those people fight back. So I know that it might feel dangerous to you, at sometimes it feels dangerous to me to talk back with people who say things that I find oppressive or offensive. But it is always optional for me. So I try to be brave in the spirit of some of my teachers and friends.
Michele Christensen 5:15
The bottom line here is that we have to stay calm. Flipping out, becoming a obnoxious ourselves, if we think someone else is being obnoxious, doesn't accomplish anything, it exhausts us unnecessarily. And that's NOT the way to bring about the change we want to see in the world. So above all, we've got to stay calm, and stay, you know, being angry...anger IS productive. Acting out of anger is not productive.
Michele Christensen 5:45
So build your skill at centering yourself and watch the vice presidential debate if you want to see what that kind of scale looks like in action.
Michele Christensen 5:56
Third, take the long view. I mean, the long, long, long, long, long view. Some of the divisions between people that are happening today have been going on for four years. Some of them have been going on for more than 400 years. Many people in other parts of the world know this, and have experienced it more than the sort of collective memory in the United States carries. But challenges between groups of people have gone on a long time. And for us to mend, the rifts we might see within our own families or communities, may not be accomplished in our lifetimes, but that doesn't mean it's not worth working on for the duration of our lifetimes. And you actually conserve your energy better when you recognize, "I'm not going to solve this single handedly." And these challenges aren't going away. I can't say, "Oh, good. Now that this has happened in the external world that are in a particular election, or a particular court decision, whatever, no one thing changes everything, we have to be the change today, and we have to stay the change tomorrow, we have to continue to bring the energy that we want to see in the world. And we have to stay engaged in the conversation."
Michele Christensen 7:19
Fourth, never for a minute think that you're not part of the problem. It's so easy to get into a self righteous place to think that you're conscious, that you're awoke, that you aren't racist, that you aren't homophobic, and therefore people who are, they're the bad guy, and you're the good guy. But the bottom line is that many of us have privilege on at least one access. I have the privilege of education, the privilege of my skin, I have the privilege of not being first generation college educated, but second generation, I have privileged in that I'm married to a cisgendered white male, I have privilege in that, I have children, and our culture benefits people who have children, and especially if they're parenting with another parent. So there's lots of ways that I have a ton of privilege. And if I ignore that for even a minute, then I ignore the ways that I benefit from all of those systems that give me privilege, and the ways that that privilege comes at the expense of people those systems oppress. When I have straight privilege that oppresses people who are queer, when I have white privilege, it oppresses people of color. I get advantages that other people, not only don't get, but that rests on other people's loss.
Michele Christensen 8:38
So attending to, ignoring my privilege, tends to turn up my self righteousness in the face of people I see as more oppressive than me or more ignorant than me. And when that happens, my usefulness gets turned down, and my kindness gets turned down for everyone. That's really not helpful. So just remembering staying humble, "I am part of the problem, and I simply need to look for ways to be the solution. In every moment, regardless of who I'm interacting with." There's always opportunities for me to do that.
Michele Christensen 9:09
Fifth, never condescend. There may be a way in which you're more enlightened, more conscious, more aware, you might have worked really hard to become aware of your own white fragility and privilege, you might be really connected to a really diverse community of people, and really aware of how much that contributes to your life, that's wonderful, and that's what you need to be doing. But it doesn't make you better than anybody. That's your bottom line, to be engaged. And it's your humility and your open heartedness that make you the change you wish to see, not the fact that you've done your work, and now you feel proud of that, in a way that makes you feel superior to somebody else.
Michele Christensen 9:51
People who don't seem to be open minded, are people whose hearts have been closed by hurt. Things have changed really quickly in our country in some ways. And there is a way that a culture that people valued and felt safe in, is dying, and so those people, you know, more white people voted for Donald Trump this time than last time. And that's because they feel hurt. They feel afraid. They feel left behind. They want someone to protect them from losses and changes that bewilder them. They consciously or unconsciously, really disdain feeling looked down on. Intellectualism and science, and people who embraced change, especially people who think they're superior to them, really feel offensive to them. Don't prove them, right. Don't be that condescending person. Show up with kindness, with respect, with open mindedness, and open heartedness. And you'll get a lot further in bringing their minds forward, if you perceive it that way, and admittedly, I do. But you know, we don't have to be condescending.
Michele Christensen 11:08
Number six, listen with curiosity. Help people feel heard in their feelings and their hungers and their needs. People make sense even when they don't. I have been moved to tears by the ways that I have been shown that kind of compassion and understanding for my own, you know, white girl tears, and my own frustrations and pains as I try to do better by people around me and fumble through my own ignorance. I make mistakes. I misgender transgender friends. I walk over, I take up too much room, in conversations with women of color. My privilege, and the self centeredness that comes from being privileged, make me behave in ways and have great big feelings that take up more room than I deserve. And yet people hold me with tenderness.
Michele Christensen 12:05
That's how they've taught me to hold others with tenderness, even when they don't seem to make sense, and when my ego says they don't deserve it. When there are people who feel like they've been marginalized, even though they're deeply privileged, give them some curiosity, some space, some grace. Carl Jung is quoted as having said, "The world is half right and half wrong. But that doesn't mean that half the people are 100% right, and the other half are 100% wrong. It means each one of us individually is 50% right and 50% wrong.Find out what is 50% wrong in yourself, and what is 50% right in your neighbor, and the world moves together again."
Michele Christensen 12:47
Now, I might, you know, question Carl, on that went a little bit. I don't know that everybody's 50% right. But really, the bottom line is that, in this lifetime, in whatever percentage, I'm wrong, I've got plenty to do. I don't need to focus on what's wrong in my neighbor, if I just focus on where I could be more right, more kind, more generous, more expansive, more constructive. And it brings me great relief, to say nothing of what it does for our relationship, when I focus instead of on the ways in which my neighbor, or my brother, or my cousin or whoever is wrong. If I focus on what's right about them, Where they already make sense to me. And if I focus my curiosity on, "What else am I missing? How could I understand them better? How could I appreciate them more?" There's always more there to discover.
Michele Christensen 13:41
Number seven: Engage as if your life depends on it. So this is something I've learned from some of my Latina friends and some of my Black friends that, they don't have a choice, personally, but to self advocate, to advocate for their children, to advocate for other members of their community who are vulnerable in the same ways and even bigger ways. And you know, when we really practice what I believe spiritually, that we are all interconnected, then I can't afford to either. I can't afford to not engage, to not be an activist and an advocate. And the thing that's really at stake for me on a daily basis is my humanity. If I don't engage in humane ways, I lose my humanity. If I allow myself to get into anger and shut down and blame then I've lost already. And the problems in our world need me here open hearted, open eyed, and engaged with all my juices flowing, not shut down in that kind of blame. So we have to pursue both connection and truth.
Michele Christensen 14:57
Now, engagement doesn't just mean, be nice to everybody and skip over the things that don't work. When someone says something in your presence, that sort of presumes that you share their prejudices, by all means, that's a time to say, "Oh, why do you say that? Oh, are you assuming that I feel that way? I really don't. Do you want to hear how I feel about that?" You know, get permission, but by all means, speak your truth, and get curious about their's.
Michele Christensen 15:27
This isn't about just making nice, it's about keeping relationships, so that we can build more understanding in all directions.
Michele Christensen 15:38
Finally, stick up for others. Never let bullies assume your complicity. Anytime you are somewhere where your power, your privilege, your relative safety, because of your wealth, or the fact that you're packing heat, or whatever it is that's going on, there's a way that you have something that could protect someone else, simply your presence. Going and sitting next to somebody on the subway because she's wearing a headscarf, and other people are given her looks or harassing her. You sit next to her, you can lend her some of your safety. I see women who I know are working hard to maintain their own equilibrium in the face of various factors that make their lives harder, various pieces of the oppression that they face. I know they're tired, I know they're spread thin. And those are still the people that I see gathering support, for even more vulnerable people in the community. Those are the people who are rallying the troops and calling forward the aid that can be lent to positive causes.
Michele Christensen 16:49
So, that's a way, that such people give me courage, and help me remember that, if you want something done, ask a busy person. And they're always people who are looking for what else they can do, whether they can dig deeper, what else is available and who's hurting more than they are. And they make me want to be brave and strong, and be that person and dig deeper, and give more, and show up. You know, and refer back to the first or the second point I made, which is that you have to maintain your own equilibrium. You've got to take care of yourself and rest and that's something else that friends have taught me. Your own joy is a really great way to put a thumb in the eye of those who would oppress you. It's one of those subversive acts, to be joyful, to care for yourself, to take care of yourself if parts of the world are saying that you don't deserve care and you don't deserve well being, and that they're not going to make it easy for you. If you claim it anyway, that's pretty subversive and amazing.
Michele Christensen 17:58
So, I've learned that, and being able to bring your joy, and your love and your generosity to people who expect the opposite from you, or people who are dishing out the opposite of that to you is pretty subversive, and kind of fun and a little twisty way. So, enjoy that. Play that game. Organize resources to help solve real problems. Keep digging deeper, and finding how you can show up in a way that empowers you and others.
Michele Christensen 18:28
Another piece that I love, is the curse that I see in activist friends who will ask again and again. When people say they have good intentions, then demand that they back that up with money, with support, with time. Insist that they show up. You know, I have friends that do that. They say, "Where are you? Put your money where your mouth is. Put your behavior where your mouth is. Be the advocate, be the ally that you say you want to be? And you can do that even with people who don't say that that's what they want to be. When they say, "I'm not this way, or I support that. Of course I believe in this."
Michele Christensen 19:11
Ask for action, call people forward. At the holidays, YWCA, there are lots of other places, that want toys for kids or support for women in domestic violence shelters with their kids or without kids. There are lots of ways that we can support other people, and you can ask the people around you to step forward and support, and it's a great way to engage, for them to see you doing good, and then to join you in that.
Michele Christensen 19:39
So, those are eight ways that I have learned to call people in because those are eight ways that people have called me in and I really Love them for that, and you know who you are. Thank you for listening.
Michele Christensen 19:54
I really hope that this is just the beginning of our conversation about this topic. The Secret Society of turned on women over at https://society.lisenbury.com, is a great place if you have questions, or want to share your experiences, or join in this conversation about creating the kinds of communities, and friendships and love relationships that we all want. Even with people who see things very differently than we do.
Michele Christensen 20:15
It's all happening at https://society.lisenbury.com, and that link is in the show notes at lisenbury.com/episode/014.
Michele Christensen 20:24
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Michele Christensen 20:54
I am literally physically relieved by the election results. I'm so hopeful and joyful to have a woman of color as our vice president. But I also believe that the 55% of white women who voted for Trump despite his egregious sexism, objectification of women, and predatory behavior, are the collective responsibility of other white women like myself. We can and we we must build bridges to those people with whom we don't see eye to eye if we're going to create a just, equitable and safe society, where future generations are assured of freedom and opportunity. I'm really grateful for the opportunity to convene this conversation. That is such a joy and an honor. I hope this episode has helped you to cultivate the courage and the skill to walk open heartedly into difficult or uncertain conversations with people in your life. I will see you back here same time next week.